There is a big division among Independent Baptists.  I'm not talking about the division between the people who believe the King James Bible to be THE WORDS of God and the people who use the King James but use Greek and Hebrew anytime they don't like what God really said.  No, I'm talking about dispensations.  This is a topic that if brought up at the wrong place at the wrong time can cause you to be treated as a heretic.  If you are a dispensationalist you are automatically called a "Ruckmanite" even if you have never even heard of him.  It is assumed that you have been "brainwashed" by the teachings of Dr. Peter Ruckman and there is no way you could have believed that there are differences in the Bible on salvation on your own.

I grew up as a Southern Baptist.  I was saved when I was seven years old.  I never spent much time studying how people in the OT made it to Heaven, but if you had asked me this question about 10 or so years ago, I probably would have said something to the effect of "I guess by keeping the commandments and performing sacrifices".  It's amazing to me that even a Southern Baptist who was taught almost zero doctrine can realize that people in the OT were not saved by grace through faith, but you have Independent Fundamental "Bible-believing" Baptists who think people in the OT were saved by grace through faith.  On a recent visit with my parents, I asked my Southern Baptist mother if she ever wondered how people in the OT made it to Heaven.  She said, "well, I guess by keeping the law".  Amazing.  She said nothing about "looking forward to the cross".

The reason for this page is to show people that there are questions that cannot be answered or explained by "salvation always the same-ists".  If you believe that salvation has always been the same throughout history, please read the questions and statements below and then send me an email responding to the questions.  If I were a betting man (which I'm not), I would wager that not one "look forward to the cross-ite" can answer any of these questions.  If someone does, I'll post their answers to this site.

1. If people in the OT were saved by grace through faith just as we are now, then what was the purpose of the law and why did they have to keep it?

1a. Why are we not required to keep the law now?

1b. Why did Paul say in Romans 11:6 "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."?  If it is not by works anymore, then it must have been by works at some point.

2. People in the OT performed sacrifices (works) because God told them to (faith).  Why did they have to perform sacrifices for the forgiveness (see the book of Leviticus) of sins if Jesus' blood was already covering their sins? (see Heb 10:4, 11)

3. Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous.  Abel obtained witness that he was righteous by offering the sacrifice (works).  Would Abel still have been made righteous if he had faith, but did not perform the sacrifice?

3a. Heb 11:7 same with Noah

3b. Heb 11:30 same with Joshua.  They had faith, but the walls wouldn't have come down if they hadn't walked around them as God told them to.

4. Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.  God said to keep his covenant (works) and He would bless them.

5. What happened to Jesus when he died?

When Jesus died, his body went to the grave (in the English that word is grave).  His spirit went to Heaven.  Luke 23:46 Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.  His soul went down into the Earth to Hell and then to Abraham's Bosom (aka Paradise).  Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell.  Acts 2:31 that his soul was not left in hell.  It says his soul was not left in Hell.  In order for something to not be left somewhere, it has to have been there.  If He did not go to Hell, then it would say, thou wilt not send my soul to hell.  Jesus went to Hell and preached to the souls there.  1 Peter 3:19-20 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.  Jesus went down to Hell, dropped off our sins, revealed Himself to the souls in Hell, then slammed the gate shut and took the keys with Him.  Then He went over to Abraham's Bosom and preached the gospel to them.  1 Peter 4:6 For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.  The souls in Abraham's Bosom had their sins forgiven, but they were not redeemed.  Their sins had not been paid for until Jesus died on the cross.  Jesus went down and told them their sins had been paid for and offered them the opportunity to accept this payment (just like we have to do now).  They all accepted it, of course, then He took them to Heaven and returned to His body.

6. Eze 18:1  The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, 4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. 5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, 9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.  God is equating being just with keeping the law.  Doing that which is lawful and right (works).

Eze 18:19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.  Again, keeping the law (works) caused a person to live.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.  21  But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.  Do that which is lawful and right, works again.

Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.  23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?  24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. When you die in your sins you go to Hell.  If a person believes that salvation has always been the same, then you can lose your salvation according to this text.

Eze 18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?  Again, loss of salvation.

7. If salvation has always been the same, how could King Saul lose his salvation?  And Samson, he lost his and got it back.  If salvation has always been the same, why can't I lose my salvation.

8. If you believe people in the OT were saved by looking forward to the cross, then do this.  Pretend you are Adam.  I just came up to you and asked how to stay out of Hell.  Tell me.  Now pretend you are Noah.  I just walked up to you at that big boat you're building and asked you how I stay out of Hell.  Tell me.  OK, now you are Moses.  How do I stay out of Hell Moses?

Click here for an EXCELLENT study on dispensations.